Vlad Tepes: Died A Catholic, "Orthodox Christian hero". NOT.
Thanks to a comment by Hellenian, I found out that there is evidence that Vlad Tepes is not the "Orthodox Christian hero" I was misguided into believing he was by the writings of a few Greek activists and the sayings of a Romanian friend:
As for Vlad Tepes being an "Orthodox Christian hero", I have to strongly disagree. Regardless of whether or not he is considered a Romanian national hero, the fact remains that he converted to Catholicism and died a Catholic. To quote a Russian narrative cited in the same book as the previous excerpt, "Dracula loved the sweetness of the earthly world much more than the eternal world, and he abandoned Orthodoxy and thereby forsook the truth and the light and accepted darkness, ending his life in heresy". Vlad's parents were both Catholics but it is believed that he was secretly baptized Orthodox, even though he attended mass at a Catholic monastery at first. It is presumed that, after he grew up, his religious convictions were not deep, even if he was often seen in the company of Romanian Orthodox monks. After all, in order to secure a military alliance with the Hungarians, Vlad expressed his readiness to marry a member of the Hungarian royal family, which meant he would need to convert to Catholicism. Instead, Vlad was imprisoned by the Hungarian king. Eventually, the king sent an emissary to Vlad asking him if he wished to become a prince of Wallachia again and if he would be willing to convert to Catholicism, the stipulation being that if he didn't he would die in prison. Vlad agreed, abandoned Orthodoxy, and the king finally accepted Vlad's proposal to marry a member of his extended family, which Vlad did. Thus, Vlad died a Catholic.
As for Vlad Tepes being an "Orthodox Christian hero", I have to strongly disagree. Regardless of whether or not he is considered a Romanian national hero, the fact remains that he converted to Catholicism and died a Catholic. To quote a Russian narrative cited in the same book as the previous excerpt, "Dracula loved the sweetness of the earthly world much more than the eternal world, and he abandoned Orthodoxy and thereby forsook the truth and the light and accepted darkness, ending his life in heresy". Vlad's parents were both Catholics but it is believed that he was secretly baptized Orthodox, even though he attended mass at a Catholic monastery at first. It is presumed that, after he grew up, his religious convictions were not deep, even if he was often seen in the company of Romanian Orthodox monks. After all, in order to secure a military alliance with the Hungarians, Vlad expressed his readiness to marry a member of the Hungarian royal family, which meant he would need to convert to Catholicism. Instead, Vlad was imprisoned by the Hungarian king. Eventually, the king sent an emissary to Vlad asking him if he wished to become a prince of Wallachia again and if he would be willing to convert to Catholicism, the stipulation being that if he didn't he would die in prison. Vlad agreed, abandoned Orthodoxy, and the king finally accepted Vlad's proposal to marry a member of his extended family, which Vlad did. Thus, Vlad died a Catholic.
9 Comments:
I was not aware of this. I assumed because he was Romanian that he was Orthodox.
Do you really think that vlad was a bad guy now? Orthodoxy is superior in many ways to the catholic relegion, but pull your head out of your ass, dont you understand whats going on over here right now? We dont have the luxury of further dividing ourselves from our allies, and when I say allies I mean people who share our blood, the people who are the same race as us.... Hellenic.
You really should live on this side one day. If your such a Hellenic Nationalist, and by the way If I were you, I wouldnt talk too much shit about Golden Dawn, your theories and accusations are based on a whole lot of distorted truths.
Catholics and other heretics are not our allies nor have they ever been. On the contrary, they have demonstrated for centuries that they are greater enemies to us than Muslims ever were. And that is a strong statement.
As for "allies" who "share our blood", I fail to understand who you refer to given that Westerners are almost all, to one extent or another, descended from Germanic forest barbarians. In any case, race means nothing in the face of culture. What does it matter if a Greek can trace his ancestry to ancient Sparta if he burns the Greek flag or sexually corrupts Greek men and women? Is he better than, say, a Greek whose ancestors were Slavic but who loves Hellenism and would die for Greece and Orthodoxy without a second thought? Of course not.
As for Golden Dawn, they are a pseudo-nationalist group just as Karatzaferis' Popular Rally is. Both parties, for a few years, were nationalistic but, down the line, became corrupted. (Golden Dawn by Neo-Paganism and "white nationalist" nonsense and Popular Rally by Populism aimed at gaining the support of Leftists and homosexuals.)
You sound almost as rediculous as the people in western europe who can call turks "Germans" if they have a german passport. A slav is not greek, period end of story.
A dog that was born in a barn is still a dog.
By the way, if you think that southern Italians from Calabria and what is now known as magna grecia are descended from "German Forest Barbarians" think again. They have way more in common culturally, racially and in just about in every other way than any fucking slav.
Im not denying that orthodoxy and the catholic church have clashed in the past, but I refuse to believe that every person in the south of Italy or elsewhere who shares our racial ancestry is involved in some kind of catholic conspiracy to ruin orthodoxy, thats complete bullshit and you know it, very few Italians even go to church anymore, and among nationalist groups over there like forza nuova, they have no intentions to hurt Greece or any other orthodox nation, we here in europe are focused on the bigger problem, the problem which people like you refuse to see because you cant let go of the past. You also will not admit that the orthodox church itself has become corrupted, far more corrupted than Golden Dawn supposedly has been by "Neo Paganism". It's not the neo pagans who are feeding and clothing illegal pakistan immigrants and niggers, its a significant portion of orthodox preists. You should see what goes on over here with them.
Since you've demonstrated (several times now) that you have the eloquence of a horiatis (peasant), I really shouldn't bother discussing anything with you. The only reason I still do is to demonstrate the intellectual bankruptcy of your beliefs (which are a minority among nationalists, I might add).
I fail to understand how recognizing as Greek a Greek that is descended from Slavs but who speaks Greek, who is Orthodox Christian, and who would die for Hellas is comparable to "the people in western europe who can call turks "Germans" if they have a german passport".
Considering the monstrous amount of crimes your beloved Latins have committed against Greeks -- from the 4th Crusade when they sacked Constantinople (which historians regard as more bloody than even the Turkish sack of Constantinople) to modern Italian complicity in the Genocide of Asia Minor Greeks (through their active aid to the butcher Mustafa Kemal) -- it is no wonder you instruct people like me to "let go of the past": the overwhelming anti-Hellenism of the Latins/Italians is inconvenient to your "racial brotherhood" thesis. What is most ironic, though, is that your instructions to forget the historical record in the name of friendship are exactly like those of the far-Left politicians who try to convince us that Turks are our friends.
Given these crimes, it is absurd to believe that Italians culturally resemble Greeks. People who have similar cultures typically don't butcher each other. At one point, many centuries ago, it is true that the ancestors of the Italians did resemble us culturally but when they accepted the Papist heresy, they diverged both in terms of culture and religion. When hordes of Germanic barbarians overran Rome is when the problem began as these barbarians destroyed their link to Greco-Roman civilization, replacing it with the backwards Western civilization of Germanics, which culminated in the so-called "Holy Roman Empire". Thus, Italians have sadly been lost to the West.
However, whereas the heirs of Roman civilization descended into Frankish barbarity, the Slavs who migrated to Europe were greatly influenced by Helleno-Orthodox civilization through the Eastern Roman (so-called "Byzantine") Empire, which is why to this day Eastern and Southern Slavs (with a few exceptions) have more in common with Greeks than Italians and Western Europeans. It is also worth mentioning that genetic studies have shown that up to 11.6% of the Greek population are descended from Slavs. Yet you would reject these Greeks, denying their link to Hellenism, but would (probably) have no problem if Italians started mixing with Greeks, given your beliefs that they share some sort of "racial link".
You talk of Europeans being focused on the "bigger problem" but, as a Hellene, what problem "Europe" is focused on is irrelevant to what problem Hellas is focused on. And, unfortunately, most Hellenes (including nationalists) are focused on the wrong problems. Instead of trying to cure the internal problems amongst Hellenes that are preventing Greece from making any sort of progress whatsoever, we have parochial nationalists focused on immigration. I'm not saying that illegal immigration is not a problem -- on the contrary, it is a massive problem -- but it is nothing compared to the internal threats destroying Hellas. What do we gain from expelling all of the illegal immigrants and unwanted foreigners if we are left with a country: where Greek women murder 250,000-500,000 unborn Greeks a year, where Greek youth are taught to hate Hellenism and regard the One True Faith of Orthodoxy as ridiculous, where most Greeks are more versed in the ways of bizarre conspiracy theories than their own history, where the economy is that of a banana republic, where being a Communist is considered respectable and being a nationalist is considered an act of lunacy, where Leftists who massacred Greeks are regarded as national heroes, where Greeks would rather drink a frappe than advance our national issues, where Greeks emulate and worship Westerners, and where traitorous Western puppets claim to be our national leaders and politicians? Until the internal crisis that threatens Greece is taken care of, the problem of identity and values, no matter what Greeks do the external problems (e.g. illegal immigration, national issues, foreign policy, etc.) will never be resolved. A weakened nation at war with itself can never prosper.
As for the Orthodox Church, it can never be corrupt. It is possible for hierarchs and other leaders of the Church to become corrupt but never the Church itself. (If you understood Orthodox doctrine you would understand the difference between the infallible Church and the fallible clergy.) It is true that the leaders of the Church aren't doing as much as they should be and that they've made a few mistakes but, despite that, the Church remains the most nationalistic institution and the one that has historically defended the nation and which, to this day, continues to do exactly that.
So you claim I am a minority among nationalists and a peasant. Where may I ask is your group of Hellenic Nationalists? I am involved with the Golden Dawn and I am only one of a handfull of greek americans that are actually active in the fatherland.
So really enlighten me, englighten me as to how your type of nationalist, (the one who thinks everyone outside of Greece is some kind of German Forest Barbarian) intends to excercise your will in Greece? besides being an intellectual who looks down on "Villagers" like me on the internet.
I was also hoping you could enlighten me as to why is it that people who still speak a dialect of the greek language in Italy and are of Greek ethnic origin getting lumped in with the entire mass of Italy and linked with the venetians and crusaders from the forth century.
And where do you get the idea that people who think like me are a "Minority among nationalists" ??
Seeing as how groups that hold your view of the world outside greece dont seem to have any organization in greece of any kind.
While you and I obviously disagree on many things, Im really not concerned about people like you because It is the Golden Dawn that will clean up Greece and not intellectuals like you who sit on their ass in astoria or wherever you are talking about a majority of nationalists that doesnt exist.
So you claim I am a minority among nationalists and a peasant. Where may I ask is your group of Hellenic Nationalists? I am involved with the Golden Dawn and I am only one of a handfull of greek americans that are actually active in the fatherland.
So really enlighten me, englighten me as to how your type of nationalist, (the one who thinks everyone outside of Greece is some kind of German Forest Barbarian) intends to excercise your will in Greece? besides being an intellectual who looks down on "Villagers" like me on the internet.
I was also hoping you could enlighten me as to why is it that people who still speak a dialect of the greek language in Italy and are of Greek ethnic origin getting lumped in with the entire mass of Italy and linked with the venetians and crusaders from the forth century.
And where do you get the idea that people who think like me are a "Minority among nationalists" ??
Seeing as how groups that hold your view of the world outside greece dont seem to have any organization in greece of any kind.
While you and I obviously disagree on many things, Im really not concerned about people like you because It is the Golden Dawn that will clean up Greece and not intellectuals like you who sit on their ass in astoria or wherever you are talking about a majority of nationalists that doesnt exist.
"People who have similar cultures typically don't butcher each other."
So I guess things like the story of troy and sparta doesnt apply to what your saying...
I did not say you were a peasant, only that you have the eloquence of one. And, considering your uncouth language, can you say that I am wrong? I do not think that "everyone outside of Greece is some kind of German Forest Barbarian". But I recognize the fact that Westerners, to one degree or another, are the descendants of Germanic forest barbarians and that, moreover, they haven't changed their ways since their ancestors invaded the Roman Empire. The way they present themselves may be more sophisticated but they are still savages.
As for the Griki (i.e. Griko-speakers of southern Italy), there are not many of them left and, from my understanding, the ones who exist do not view themselves as Greeks, even if they recognize the fact that they are descended from Greeks. There are many peoples who have absorbed Greeks or that are partially descended from Greeks (e.g. Southern Slavs, Libyans, Palestinians, and the many peoples Alexander the Great conquered, including some tribes in the Pakistan/India areas) but unless they are Orthodox and consider themselves Greek there is no hope that they will ever be a part of the Greek world.
Your views are indeed a minority among nationalists. Golden Dawn never represented the largest faction of Greek nationalists. If I'm not mistaken, the most votes they ever received in an election was about 10,000. On the other hand, Konstantinos Plevris' Front Line political party received over 48,000 votes in the 1999 Euro-Elections. Popular Rally received over 162,000 votes in the 2004 national elections and over 252,000 votes in the 2004 Euro-elections. (However, Popular Rally is a pseudo-nationalist party and only a portion of its voters are nationalists.) It's also worth mentioning that, among democratic nationalists, Golden Dawn is viewed as a "Neo-Nazi" organization rather than as a nationalist group. (Some of these same nationalists believe that Golden Dawn was set up by the Greek intelligence service.) The other reason its support has been minimal is because it flirted with absurd and irrelevent nonsense such as "white nationalism". In the end, Golden Dawn will achieve nothing. Golden Dawn may have had a chance if it had: a) been more serious, b) not flirted with "white power" stupidities, c) not accepted Neo-Paganism, and d) based its National Socialist ideals on Greek models rather than foreign models. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.
As for ancient Greek city-states and kingdoms, they did not always have similar cultures. It's true that they spoke the same language (though different dialects of it), believed in the same religion, and took part in the same sporting events but each city-state or kingdom had its own value system. The militaristic Spartan society was a far cry from the radical democracy of Athens. In any case, the level of hatred between Greeks and Franks/Latins (and the latter's atrocities to the former) cannot be compared to the conflicts between ancient Greek city-states.
By the way, I do not know why you assume that I live in Astoria or in New York.
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